The Weeb Has Fallen In Love With The Drawing
Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "Her ass is part of her character."
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- #9,751
Bunnyboy is seriously tempting for Endwalker though >.>
- #9,753
Very creepy, not to mention how "younger and softer" Kisara's face looks.
Some gems from the post on r/jrpg subreddit:
Do people have to moral-shame in every single thread involving art of Rinwell?Let's find out.
Is it sexual now to be fully clothed but slightly wet? Like the shirt isn't even see through or anything. I genuinely don't see why a bunch of people are acting like Rinwell is being sexualized in this piece.
I mean, nothing wrong with the art itself outside of a semi-wet shirt. I saw worse during HS track practice.
Some of them are so desensitized to this stuff, it's scary....
- #9,754
- #9,755
So absurd, they will really jump through hoops to defend this shit.So Bandai Namco's twitter account has been posting Tales of Arise artwork done by, Daigo Okumura, Character Designer for Blue Protocol, Scarlet Nexus and some Tales Of Games (not Arise) and he finally got to Rinwell (14 years old) and well, see for yourself:
Very creepy, not to mention how "younger and softer" Kisara's face looks.Some gems from the post on r/jrpg subreddit:
Some of them are so desensitized to this stuff, it's scary....
- #9,756
Some of them are so desensitized to this stuff, it's scary....
Not to mention not being able to discern the difference between your average real life 14 year old doing something like this in their own backyard and someone drawing a fictional 14 year old like this from scratch with lots of detail. Reminds me of how some people will defend oversexualised female characters with "they own their sexuality, it's empowering", as if they weren't fictional and (usually) designed by men.
- #9,757
And the Tales thing, well, I best not say what I want to. Channel that disappointment into something better.
- #9,758
Also Anime fans online: First of all, there is nothing wrong with this sexualized child, also, if you understood the lore you'd know she's really a 1000 year old dragon.
- #9,759
Anime fans online: Why isn't anime more mainstream accepted??
Also Anime fans online: First of all, there is nothing wrong with this sexualized child, also, if you understood the lore you'd know she's really a 1000 year old dragon.
Sorry I know it's obvious but this shit never gets old lol
- #9,760
Anime fans online: Why isn't anime more mainstream accepted??
Also Anime fans online: First of all, there is nothing wrong with this sexualized child, also, if you understood the lore you'd know she's really a 1000 year old dragon.
I will completely ignore the actual point of your post to ask a question that will maybe make me seem dumb, or out of touch.
I'm not the most social person, so I can only rely on my limited experience but... am I alone in feeling like such comments are weirdly defensive because... anime kinda became mainstream already?
I mean, I know that not everyone watches anime, and some avoid the medium outright for reasons related to this topic but, we now live in a time in which mainstream streaming services like Amazon Prime Video, Netflix, Disney Plus and others fight to include anime in their catalogue and even produce them (see the acclaimed Castlevania anime) just like they would live-action series. In which well-known movie directors such as Cameron and Del Toro decide to invest millions in projects inspired by anime such as the movie Alita - Battle Angel. Every year there is at least one anime movie by Hosoda, Miyazaki or someone else that gets a nomination at the Academy Awards. On news sites I always read that Demon Slayer has become the best-selling something-something, that My Hero Academia's latest season has broken the records of the prevoius one, etc.
Anime certainly isn't on the level of stuff like Game of Thrones, Star Wars or the MCU, that are so mainstream it feels weird when someone claims to not know anything about them, but if I meet a new group of people my age, and while trying to make friends I decide to ask if they watch Attack on Titan and the odds of a positive response are above 50%, I can't help but think mainstream level has already been achieved.
Am I missing something? Do I need to go outside more because the majority doesn't watch anime at all and this is just a false impression of mine?
P.S.: Of course the negative prejudice of the "anime fan" that smells, is awkward and creepy is still alive and strong, but I feel like that's a different matter entirely. After all the negative prejudice of THAT KIND of "superhero fan" still exists as well and nobody would argue that superheroes aren't mainstream.
- #9,761
These are awesome designs! The third one, any idea what culture it's paying tribute to? It seems South Asian but I know nothing about the game.
- #9,762
I will completely ignore the actual point of your post to ask a question that will maybe make me seem dumb, or out of touch.
I'm not the most social person, so I can only rely on my limited experience but... am I alone in feeling like such comments are weirdly defensive because... anime kinda became mainstream already?I mean, I know that not everyone watches anime, and some avoid the medium outright for reasons related to this topic but, we now live in a time in which mainstream streaming services like Amazon Prime Video, Netflix, Disney Plus and others fight to include anime in their catalogue and even produce them (see the acclaimed Castlevania anime) just like they would live-action series. In which well-known movie directors such as Cameron and Del Toro decide to invest millions in projects inspired by anime such as the movie Alita - Battle Angel. Every year there is at least one anime movie by Hosoda, Miyazaki or someone else that gets a nomination at the Academy Awards. On news sites I always read that Demon Slayer has become the best-selling something-something, that My Hero Academia's latest season has broken the records of the prevoius one, etc.
Anime certainly isn't on the level of stuff like Game of Thrones, Star Wars or the MCU, that are so mainstream it feels weird when someone claims to not know anything about them, but if I meet a new group of people my age, and while trying to make friends I decide to ask if they watch Attack on Titan and the odds of a positive response are above 50%, I can't help but think mainstream level has already been achieved.
Am I missing something? Do I need to go outside more because the majority doesn't watch anime at all and this is just a false impression of mine?
P.S.: Of course the negative prejudice of the "anime fan" that smells, is awkward and creepy is still alive and strong, but I feel like that's a different matter entirely. After all the negative prejudice of THAT KIND of "superhero fan" still exists as well and nobody would argue that superheroes aren't mainstream.
In short, just like with anything, there are going to be people who dabble in something that bubbles to the top in popularity versus the people who are knee deep into scene, for better or worse, and wish that they could have a deeper conversation with people on the regular about the medium. But just because there are moments where one show or one movie becomes more popular than usual doesn't make anime mainstream. Squid Game is currently the most popular Netflix show in the service's history, but it doesn't mean that the death game genre is suddenly going to explode. And just because Demon Slayer Mugen Train broke all box office records in japan doesn't mean that wading through new anime blind and unguided isn't a massive minefield that, as originally stated, can often lead to shows that reveal in the sexualization of minors or other incredibly offputting tropes. Demon Slayer itself has some pretty stupid tropes circling the sexualization of minors which you wouldn't find out about until you'd probably already settled on watching the whole thing, and then, oops, it's too late, it's here.
Regardless, there's another thread for this.
- #9,763
Regardless how far I wander into the cat reddit...I'm reminded of casual sexism and how alienated anyone who isn't the majority due to the voting system.
- #9,764
- #9,765
God those comments, maybe you shouldn't be trying to defend the innocence of a harmless wet shirt and wondering more about why anyone would jump at the chance to even draw a 14 year old in a wet shirt in the first place.So Bandai Namco's twitter account has been posting Tales of Arise artwork done by, Daigo Okumura, Character Designer for Blue Protocol, Scarlet Nexus and some Tales Of Games (not Arise) and he finally got to Rinwell (14 years old) and well, see for yourself:
Very creepy, not to mention how "younger and softer" Kisara's face looks.Some gems from the post on r/jrpg subreddit:
Some of them are so desensitized to this stuff, it's scary....
- #9,766
In short, just like with anything, there are going to be people who dabble in something that bubbles to the top in popularity versus the people who are knee deep into scene, for better or worse, and wish that they could have a deeper conversation with people on the regular about the medium. But just because there are moments where one show or one movie becomes more popular than usual doesn't make anime mainstream. Squid Game is currently the most popular Netflix show in the service's history, but it doesn't mean that the death game genre is suddenly going to explode. And just because Demon Slayer Mugen Train broke all box office records in japan doesn't mean that wading through new anime blind and unguided isn't a massive minefield that, as originally stated, can often lead to shows that reveal in the sexualization of minors or other incredibly offputting tropes. Demon Slayer itself has some pretty stupid tropes circling the sexualization of minors which you wouldn't find out about until you'd probably already settled on watching the whole thing, and then, oops, it's too late, it's here.Regardless, there's another thread for this.
I see, so it's more that certain shows have become mainstream, and not the medium. And I guess many people still don't know much about it. Kind of like how Pokémon and Sailor Moon have been watched by a lot of people, but it's more likely for someone to call them "cartoons" than anything else.
Anyway thanks for the answer but I'll drop this now. As you said, it's better to talk about this in that other thread.
- #9,767
I would say this is indeed a skewed view of things, perhaps due to Netflix's suggestion algorithm being based on your previous watches? Netflix is pushing anime because it's a huge part of Japan's output, much like it's pushing for non-US countries' shows in general (which is frankly awesome). Yet if you look at the lists of most watched on Netflix, you'll find zero anime shows in them. Hell, not even Castlevania broke top 25 last year; the only animated show to break the top 20 lists in the past three years is Big Mouth.Am I missing something? Do I need to go outside more because the majority doesn't watch anime at all and this is just a false impression of mine?
- #9,768
I would say this is indeed a skewed view of things, perhaps due to Netflix's suggestion algorithm being based on your previous watches? Netflix is pushing anime because it's a huge part of Japan's output, much like it's pushing for non-US countries' shows in general (which is frankly awesome). Yet if you look at the lists of most watched on Netflix, you'll find zero anime shows in them. Hell, not even Castlevania broke top 25 last year; the only animated show to break the top 20 lists in the past three years is Big Mouth.
I didn't even think about it, but it could very much be this. Considering that I got Netflix in the first place to watch the Little Witch Academia movies, the algorithm probably learned what to push to me from the get go.
- #9,769
I will never not laugh at this video. The way he bursts in with the "um actually, if you watch the show" is so on point.
Sorry I know it's obvious but this shit never gets old lol
- #9,770
Pretty nice but some character are stereotyped
- #9,771
These are awesome designs! The third one, any idea what culture it's paying tribute to? It seems South Asian but I know nothing about the game.
Sorry, I'm afraid I'm far from an expert, but I think the designs are nice. The game has little actual writing, with the only story being an opening paragraph and the characters' bios.
Both black characters wear neck rings and hail from the same savannah homeland in-game, so I'd guess their designs are based in an African culture of the savannah? But maybe I'm off. Here are their bios:
Here's Rwenzo's full design:
- #9,772
I will never not laugh at this video. The way he bursts in with the "um actually, if you watch the show" is so on point.
It's always the repeated glasses adjusts that get me. When I read some comments online I can feeeel the poster adjusting their glasses with their middle and index fingers.
Even if they don't wear glasses.
No offense intended to any bespectacled individuals here.
- #9,773
- #9,774
My favorite has to be the "original mangaka" part. Just the way you can feel the rage and pain... It is perfect.I will never not laugh at this video. The way he bursts in with the "um actually, if you watch the show" is so on point.
- #9,775
Finished the game and he's still there. My sentiment remains.
- #9,776
Two hours and twenty minutes - thank goodnes were few, I don't want to know what you consider a lot...The Good Life first few minutes
- #9,777
Sorry I know it's obvious but this shit never gets old lol
Thomas Manga is my favorite Mangaka
- #9,778
Even among male Era users who generally support women's rights, a lot of this stuff either just... doesn't even occur to them as being creepy or sexist, or is okay to them personally because they find it arousing.Some of them are so desensitized to this stuff, it's scary....
I vaguely remember a guy defending Ann from P5 as being "sex positive", and someone pointed out that his argument is undermined by the fact Ann doesn't willingly wear her revealing outfit. He replied with something like "well, aside from THAT she's sex positive". What?
- #9,779
This so much in all honesty... I've entered some Era-based Discord servers for online multiplayer games, joined up guilds/alliances/whatever, and I've come across so many of these types of guys even in male Era... where, you know... things like female characters being sexualized/objectified/waifuized are A.O.K in their books... and things like playing a woman/female avatar character, dressing them up in such a way... I've eventually learnt to not communicate with them anymore due to their unapologetic nature in regards to all that plus their sexism/misogyny/chauvinism. It's angering, upsetting, disappointing, and etc not even here I can find a space to comfortably exist in.Even among male Era users who generally support women's rights, a lot of this stuff either just... doesn't even occur to them as being creepy or sexist, or is okay to them personally because they find it arousing.
- #9,780
I swear, these people have a mindset that if a character isn't in the middle of blowing someone or something then it isn't sexual. But of course they are being dense on purpose and know it.So Bandai Namco's twitter account has been posting Tales of Arise artwork done by, Daigo Okumura, Character Designer for Blue Protocol, Scarlet Nexus and some Tales Of Games (not Arise) and he finally got to Rinwell (14 years old) and well, see for yourself:
Very creepy, not to mention how "younger and softer" Kisara's face looks.Some gems from the post on r/jrpg subreddit:
Some of them are so desensitized to this stuff, it's scary....
- #9,781
Agreed completely. It's really disheartening to witness and experience casual sexism from your 'fellow comrades' who seem just as unwilling to change their behavior and views as the men they claim to despise. It's like a slap from reality. I was reading some of the discussion around the change in ownership and a lot of folks seem to believe that self described 'leftist/progressive' places are inherently better for minorities than places that don't label themselves as such and I can't really understand it. This place isn't that special - it's another internet forum dominated by caucasian heterosexual men like the majority of forums are. There's not a shortage of gendered slurs, posters freely call people they don't like bitches, cunts, hoes and think themselves 'above' posters on other forums lol. The alt right aren't the only group whose actions cause women to feel unwelcome. Leftism doesn't often feel much like feminism, it seems to mingle only when convenient. But I'm preaching to the choir as this has been discussed many times before in the thread already.This so much in all honesty... I've entered some Era-based Discord servers for online multiplayer games, joined up guilds/alliances/whatever, and I've come across so many of these types of guys even in male Era... where, you know... things like female characters being sexualized/objectified/waifuized are A.O.K in their books... and things like playing a woman/female avatar character, dressing them up in such a way... I've eventually learnt to not communicate with them anymore due to their unapologetic nature in regards to all that plus their sexism/misogyny/chauvinism. It's angering, upsetting, disappointing, and etc not even here I can find a space to comfortably exist in.
This is a stellar megathread and as someone whose been here for 4 months total I wish it existed as a forum; it's great to read discussion, debates and angry venting written by other women. For example I got real tired of reading what men think of Bayonetta over the years and reading the different ways women view her is so interesting in comparison. I can understand another women seeing Bayo as awesome and/or empowering based on the experiences shared here regardless of how I feel about Bayo myself. I want a feminist gaming forum more than another general leftist gaming zone - I came here from one, I left the other forum after I was exhausted at the frequency of casual sexism being posted despite posters high-fiving themselves over how progressive they are compared to the right. It's sad how pervasive the issue is. The bar is set so fucking low lmao.
- #9,782
Yep, it's bad. Good night everyone.
To add insult to injury, this is what she used to look like.
*SIGH* This is so tiring. Why did they need to give her a boobjob? Seriously why? You can't tell me that her original design didn't look appealing. You can't tell me she didn't look stunning and hot before. She was one of the characters I was looking forward to.
I don't get it. Even if we disregard morality and assume that the only thing that matters is spilling as much money from weeb whales as possible, what's the point of making her look similar to a ton of other girls already in the game? I'm sure even weeb whales appreciate some variety. One comment I read that perfectly encapsulates my feelings is "I love that she has muscular arms and legs, but what the f*ck happend to her torso?".
And even then, muscular arms should be the bare minimum for a warrior, not something special but let's not open that particular can of worms.
It's like a rule that every woman that gets in this game has to magically get big breasts, no matter what. And if you are one of the few Fire Emblem characters already known for having a noticeable bust, like Malice, then you get HUGE breasts to stand out.
Here some other examples of what I mean.
Fire Emblem Heroes
Original Game on 3DS
Fire Emblem Heroes
And now that I think about it, this particular selection of characters shows the "evolution" of what it means to be "the busty one" in Fire Emblem. What was considered busty in the GBA era is now the standard. And to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying that things were perfect back in the day, there are definitely problems and sexist design elements in the artwork from the old games. It's just that Heroes is so bad it makes the other games, even the bad ones, look like peak feminism.
I don't see things changing anytime soon, so you can look forward to me venting again the next time they make a really stupid character design.
Or when Genshin Impact makes a really stupid character design, since I'm playing that more than Heroes nowadays.
- #9,783
Now that Genshin was mentioned, I don't see the issue with breasts there. With some exceptions. At least. But the outfits for female characters are terrible and really go to stupid character design.
- #9,784
And now that I think about it, this particular selection of characters shows the "evolution" of what it means to be "the busty one" in Fire Emblem. What was considered busty in the GBA era is now the standard. And to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying that things were perfect back in the day, there are definitely problems and sexist design elements in the artwork from the old games. It's just that Heroes is so bad it makes the other games, even the bad ones, look like peak feminism.
I think you're 100% right. The "standard" has shifted so far that if developers want a character to "stand out" breast-wise (sigh) they go for comically huge. This seems to be a guiding design principle in FEH, as you mentioned before.
I will never get that Valkyria Chronicles 2 design book out of my head, where these male artists and character designers seemed to be chuckling amongst themselves as they gleefully explain why they picked specific breast sizes for each female character, as if that detail is somehow more important than anything else about the character design.
- #9,785
- #9,786
Naw, they're the sort of people who throw a strop if something isn't precisely catered to theirI'm sure even weeb whales appreciate some variety.
I think Era'a core demographic is basically "men who don't want to be associated with incels" >_>This place isn't that special - it's another internet forum dominated by caucasian heterosexual men [...] think themselves 'above' posters on other forums
- #9,787
I think Era'a core demographic is basically "men who don't want to be associated with incels" >_>
men who don't want to be associated with incels but will readily talk about how they almost became one without considering how unsafe that might make women on here feel >.>
- #9,788
I... I don't know what to say. I will never understand this obsession of having women with big breasts, some even to the point of being absurd. All I can do is continue shaking my head in disbelief and continue to try my best avoiding gachas.Now that Genshin was mentioned, I don't see the issue with breasts there. With some exceptions. At least. But the outfits for female characters are terrible and really go to stupid character design.
True. I think the most *ah-hem* "top heavy" character in Genshin is Raiden, and in any other gacha she would be beaten by dozens of characters.
Other than the bad outfits my main problem with Genshin is that every playable character is incredibly young (looking. I know that some are canonically 1000-years old and stuff) and incredibly skinny. I mean, even Fire Emblem has some old men and women as playable characters, and some plus sized playable characters (even if those are not in Heroes yet. I wonder why?
) and Genshin can't afford to get even one? And it's not like they don't have models already. Jilliana the nun is plus-sized, so why can't they use her model as a base for a new character? The game is still young, so maybe we will see some positive change.
Oh and also the absence of black and brown characters is a major problem, but to be fair Genshin is supposed to have 7 kingdoms and thus far we have explored only fantasy-germany, fantasy-china and fantasy-japan. One of the kingdoms is confirmed to be desertic, so there has to be black and brown people there, right?
Unless they pull a Final Fantasy XII. Please don't pull a Final Fantasy XII, Mihoyo. 
- #9,789
Happy to see DE posted as an example of games that do character design nicely. As a weird "bonus" there's zero character dialogue or story aside from the 2-paragraph setup to the game and the bios you've posted, so there's little-to-no chance for writers to embarrass themselves! The way the character bios are written makes me think/hope that if the game were to have dialogue/story events that they'd actually steer clear of tropey fanservice though. They have some goofy stuff of their own (a robot player character, a literal giant cat, and even a stereotypical male isekai character who thinks they're playing a video game but doesn't realize if they die here they die in real life because *gasp* it is real life) but seem to avoid stuff myself and folks in this thread would clown them for. The only thing that made me pause for a beat was a character portrait that has skintight clothing and a static pose that empathized her thigh gap but that's it.Sorry, I'm afraid I'm far from an expert, but I think the designs are nice. The game has little actual writing, with the only story being an opening paragraph and the characters' bios.Both black characters wear neck rings and hail from the same savannah homeland in-game, so I'd guess their designs are based in an African culture of the savannah? But maybe I'm off. Here are their bios:
Here's Rwenzo's full design:
- #9,790
I'm also not entirely joking because they all look the same to me except for the ones that are just children.
- #9,791
And they always want to talk about them in side convos as much as possible. I'm fairly sure boob comparisons don't come up that often outside of games.
- #9,792
I am not sure why that is. Maybe the shared animations? Still dumb and I wish they would improve. The NPCs have diverse body types that I wish the characters would use.
- #9,793
Rosaria has entered the chat.True. I think the most *ah-hem* "top heavy" character in Genshin is Raiden
- #9,794
Rosaria has entered the chat.
She enters the chat but doesn't bother to correct anyone or even talk. It would be an headache, so she just chills instead.
- #9,795
Weirdest part about Genshin is that even the men are being affected by the "samey" characters. You would get a character that is supposed to be buff yet when they come out in game they are skinny like everyone else.I am not sure why that is. Maybe the shared animations? Still dumb and I wish they would improve. The NPCs have diverse body types that I wish the characters would use.
Shared animation rigs/skeletons are definitely part of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just Mihoyo being risk-averse and thinking that other body types won't make the kind of money their very targeted character designs are intended to make.
Which is a shame because more body diversity (and more actual adults) would make me pull more, lol. But I'm not everybody, it seems.
- #9,796
Agreed.Shared animation rigs/skeletons are definitely part of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just Mihoyo being risk-averse and thinking that other body types won't make the kind of money their very targeted character designs are intended to make.Which is a shame because more body diversity (and more actual adults) would make me pull more, lol. But I'm not everybody, it seems.
Like I would love more buff or chubby characters. They would add a lot of variety and would make characters more unique. Like all they have to do is look at how well GOW Thor was received. It was really crazy how much people liked the design.
Similarly, I really loved Abby in TLOU. She is one of the most unique characters in gaming just by looking at the design alone.
- #9,797
Off-topic, but I don't know where else I can talk about it:Regardless, there's another thread for this.
Personally I think it would be interesting if there was a "Feminist Discussion of Books" thread, just like there is a manga and anime one. I have read too many fantasy books with obvious "r/menwritingwomen" stuff, so I would love to read your recommendations for books with good female characters... and your warnings of bad books that I should avoid lol.
For example: have you read Gideon the Ninth? What do you think about it?
- #9,800
I laughed. Such an awful and pointless "bounce". Good evidence on how internalized & accepted objectification is
The Weeb Has Fallen In Love With The Drawing
Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-women-criticise-sexualised-character-designs-ot3-her-ass-is-part-of-her-character.275780/page-196
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